Journal
Asbury Seminary
24 May 2007 › 8 comments
Recently, an old college friend got in touch with me. He is considering attending a different seminary but wanted to hear about my experience. While replying to him, I thought other prospective students out there might benefit from a glimpse of what life is like at Asbury Theological Seminary.
As far as my own experience: From a purely pragmatic point of view, seminaries exist first and foremost to perpetuate their own existence. After all, they are institutions of higher learning. I went off to seminary expecting it to be like a tight-knit local church, but at times Asbury felt more like a high school popularity contest, in the regard that students were sort of vying for attention from influential people in their respective denominations.
Seminary can be a positive experience if you don’t mistakenly assume that as a school it will feel like a church. I saw so many would-be leaders clamoring for pulpit ministry (who didn’t really have a knack for it) that I now feel contented to be an Aaron, playing more of a support role from the periphery. One need not bear the title of pastor to be effective for the kingdom…
As long as Moses held up his hands, the Israelites were winning, but whenever he lowered his hands, the Amalekites were winning. When Moses’ hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up – one on one side, one on the other – so that his hands remained steady till sunset.
— Exodus 17:11-12
While at Asbury, I was active in student government, and was president of my class the last year there. As such, I saw some of how the school was run, and we jokingly referred to the seminary as the Emerald City because of the “man behind the curtain” (reference to Wizard of Oz). We did our best to push for change and make sure that student voices were heard, not marginalized.
While an accreditation audit team from the Association of Theological Schools was visiting our campus, we on the student body council were called into a meeting and told by one professor: “This isn’t a time to air dirty laundry.” I assured him that I would answer any questions asked of me honestly, but didn’t feel right promising to gloss over any rough spots.
To future incoming classes of seminarians, my quote as an outgoing student officer was: “We need to speak the truth in love, even when it’s a hard truth, otherwise all we have are candy-coated problems.” As far as advocating change, I described it like this: “You cannot overhaul the foundations of an institution without unsettling a few fossils.”
Since my time at Asbury, two professors and the school president have been dismissed, so the place is definitely going through some growing pains. This has caused quite a shake-down in the faculty and staff. Many people (including myself) feel that the president was good for the school. More on the drama of the presidential dismissal can be read at Christianity Today.
So, all this to say that while I still think seminaries can be effective, they are definitely going to need to change to a more relational style of teaching and governance, as opposed to a “because I said so” authoritarian stance. In my opinion, the top-down model is no longer a viable one. One of my professors would often skip town to speak at various events, leaving a video taped lecture in lieu of his presence. He actually missed double the number of classes he afforded to students before failing his course.
While my wife was finishing her 60 credit-hour Master of Arts in Counseling degree, we started applying for jobs elsewhere. Since the Master of Divinity program is 96 credits, I’m still finishing up my MDiv online, but actually prefer it this way. While I had several professors that really impacted me, I’d say for the most part I now view seminary in terms of goods and services. I just want to learn the material and graduate, without too much pontification.
Anyway, I don’t want to deter anyone from pursuing a seminary education. I just wanted to clarify that it is not necessarily as peachy as any promotional materials or admissions department might make it seem. Christians are all just fallen people trying to serve God as best we can. Seminary is good for what it’s worth, but I think local churches that train up their own leadership will become the paradigm for ministry in the future.
Discussion + Dissension
Comments closed after 2 weeks.
#1 James Mitchell
Well written summary, thanks Nathan.
“Seminary is good for what it’s worth, but I think local churches that train up their own leadership will become the paradigm for ministry in the future.”
That last line I think is the best one. What an insight/idea to state. The very thought of the Church training up their own leaders is brilliant. More churches should help the Pastor become the shepherd the local church needs shepherding them.
In good Baptist tradition: I would suggest creating a committee for it ;)
Seriously though – thanks.
#2 Nathan Smith
James: Yeah, I think that local churches training leaders is closer to the Biblical model of the early church, whereas institutionalized training mirrors that of the Pharisees. While there’s certainly a lot to be gained from academy learning, it’s a lot of head knowledge whereas ministry addresses the heart.
#3 Randy Willis
Hi Nathan. I found the telling of your seminary experience very interesting.
I’m currently a d.min. student at Asbury, but I live 9 hours away, so I can’t speak to what it’s like to live on campus. Nor can I speak to the M.Div. program. But I will say that my experience (and my wife’s experience; she’s also a d.min. student) has been great. (BTW, I’d be happy to respond to any questions about the d.min. program by anyone who might happen across your blog, Nathan. You can contact me through my blog.)
FWIW, my M.Div. experience at the Church of God Theological Seminary in Cleveland, TN (cogts.edu) was a very good experience, in terms of spirituality, academics, and community.
#4 Nathan Smith
Randy: I think that a lot of one’s seminary experience has to do with two main factors: One’s perception of the community environment, and amount of inclusion that is felt in said community. I’m sure that DMin students are afforded a bit more respect, and that helps shape your perception.
Also, not being on campus enables one remain blissfully ignorant, so to speak. Now that I’m just an ExL student (distance learning), my perception of the school is basically neutral, and therefore better. I’m not exposed to the administrative politics and marginalization of the student voice.
Looking back, had I not got involved in the Student Leadership Team (then called Student Body Council), I would have kept on assuming that Asbury’s administrators had the best interest of students in mind. While I was there, I saw the “writing on the wall,” and now all of those issues are coming to fruition, with Asbury’s currently tumultuous state of affairs.
#5 Phill
Nathan:
I have worked in the church for the last eight years and have seen this happen to people at different levels.
When people feel called to move into ministry they have different perceptions of what it is like to work in a church. Some think the main thing for a senior pastor is preaching on Sunday morning…when in reality that is a smaller portion of the job.
I have watched people walk into the church thinking their experience was going to be what they experienced on Sunday morning. Only to find themselves in a very different world. One filled with politics, performance reports, and very much a job.
It sounds almost like the experience you had. I have no doubts that there are issues in the inner workings. However this is nothing different than any other institution or company or church.
I think we sometimes fail to see what it takes to run organizations like this. We don’t have all the information and only see portions of the results of decisions that are made. For some it is very devastating to walk through that process…
Again I am not saying there are not issues…but it is how we work through those issues and become parts of the solution.
#6 Nathan Smith
Phill: Well spoken. While I realize that a certain degree of business related and administrative things that must happen to maintain a church and/or seminary, I guess what was off-putting to me was how covert it is.
For instance, I met with one of the faculty members, on the premise of helping him with a website (one I initially thought would be of personal nature). Through the course of the conversation, I realized that he basically wanted me to re-design quite a significant portion of AsburySeminary.edu to his liking. It was suggested that payment for said services be handled discreetly on the side, rather than through school payroll. This was clearly against the established channels of communication, and was a conflict of interest, being that I was one of the webmasters of the school site.
Needless to say I did not go for this, and reported it to my superiors in the IT dept. Things like this were commonplace in the workings of the seminary – complete disregard for necessary due process, in favor of “casting a vision” etc. Just because someone has what is perceived to be a bright idea by its originator, it mustn’t be allowed to trump procedure.
So, in summation – It is not that I was naive to the fact that pastoring is far from being all public oration and applause. I’m well aware and capable of the administrative side of things. It was seeing the personal agendas of those who should know better which irked me. I guess I expected to find more role models at seminary, in the capacity of mentoring relationships.
As far as “being part of the solution,” I wrestled with this issue while attending Asbury. I tend to think of United Methodism as a ship with many holes in it, one that is taking on water, but has not yet sunk. I tried to gauge while at seminary if I should join in, grab a bucket, and attempt to salvage the vessel – or if that ship is more of a Titanic with a foreboding future.
I am still waiting to see, but I know this much: I do not want to be the captain who goes down with the ship. I would rather not stake my livelihood on it. Instead, I now do web development full-time. Despite the constantly changing pace, it is less subjective and more measurable than paid ministry.
That being said, my wife and I still attend a UMC. My father-in-law is a UMC pastor. I hope the denomination can re-unify and does not splinter further.
#7 Chris Huff
Thanks for your perspective on seminary. I’m also finishing up my M.Div. I have 5 classes left, but I’m going to spread them out over the next 2 years because my church brought me on staff just recently. I didn’t go behind the scenes at seminary at all, but I took the role of a typical student.
My experience was that there was a range of personalities who taught. Some were definitely more academic in their approach, and were consumed with seminary life. Others, though, were very pastoral in their approach. I naturally gravitated more towards these professors. Some of the most godly and down-to-earth men teach invaluable lessons there.
Seminary can be a very scholarly, or it can be very practical. My advice to any person starting out in seminary would be to get involved in the local church. Don’t separate the two. Ideally, like you said, we would be trained by our churches. Since this isn’t happening at the moment in most churches, I think the next best option would be to learn at seminary, and actively put it all into practice on an ongoing basis in the church scene.
Perhaps I did keep myself blissfully unaware of the inner workings of seminary. But I loved my time at Southern, and wouldn’t change a thing.
#8 Nathan Smith
Chris: I’m glad to hear about your positive seminary experience. Hopefully I didn’t come across as saying that all seminaries are problematic. My time spent at Asbury was a positive one overall, except for the way the school was administrated. I’m sure that your experience at Southern has been good because, by and large, it is run by wise decision-makers.
I want to be clear that my experience with professors and fellow students was great for the most part. It was just the school’s financial mismanagement and the issue of politics I witnessed that made my seminary experience bittersweet. Much like you though, I would not trade it for anything. I mean, had it not been for seminary, I would have never met my wife!